Shifting

[nrj]

Bike / Model / Year: 2004 Honda599

Hi, what's are the ideal / best up/down shifting points that you all have experienced for all gears? what's the best gauge for shifting rpm's or mph?

[JHenley17]

Have you driven any other manual vehicles? It's all dependent on how you're driving/riding. You should pretty much be doing it by fee (though "feel" is sometimes harshly discouraged)l, not consciously looking down at the tach. My truck doesn't even have a tach.

The only guideline, most of us here cruise between 4k-6k (I'm on the low end of that spectrum). If it's not pulling hard enough, downshift. If it's still not, keep going until it is. I guess you could say, unless you're at a putting-around pace, don't drop below 3k.

[nrj]

Hi, I hear you on feeling it vs using a guideline and looking down however I think initially for me it's important to know a guideline and move from there eventually just using intuition / feeling it at least for a newbie like myself.

Your guidelines help; thanks. If there's anyone else that can offer their opinion / guideline / method that'd be great and helpful.

I've personally found that when I get the rpm's at around 5k - 6k it feels like the engine likes it as the shifting is much smoother and it gives a little rev automatically when you pull the clutch in to shift in between shifting. But the issue is that I'm not always in a situation i.e at a traffic light where I can take a gear up to 5-6k so finding a sweetspot / figuring out a guideline for lower rpm shifting is something i'm interested in knowing / finding out.

If anyone has any expertise in this please share. Thanks.

[Alexander]

...But the issue is that I'm not always in a situation i.e at a traffic light where I can take a gear up to 5-6k so finding a sweetspot / figuring out a guideline for lower rpm shifting is something i'm interested in knowing / finding out. ...

Not sure if I follow you here...but if you're saying what I think you're saying than you probably just shouldn't be up-shifting. If the rpms are too low, stay in the lower gear.

Like JH says, I just shift by feel, and it's dependent on the situation. I typically shift around 4-7 for just putting around normally, but if I'm feeling frisky I'll wait till 7-10. I believe the sweet spot for max power is around 9-10k.

You probably don't want to shift too far under 3-4k - you should feel a 'weakness' in the engine when you shift too early.

[dabinche]

normal (i.e. legal speed) riding I up shift @ 5k rpm down shift @ 3k rpm

[nrj]

Alexander, thanks. Definitely what I was looking for interims of feedback. Thanks.

Dabinche, thanks also what I was looking for interims of feedback.

[DH919]

The only helpful tip I can give is when the bike feels like it needs to shift, than shift. When you stop accelerating in the gear your in, move to the next, if the RPMs drop to low, oh you'll know...

[troyohchatter]

I will say this. The 599, which has been called smooth shifting by all of the bike rags, was a pain in the ass for me to get used to, and I've been riding for 25 years. A couple of weeks ago I rode my brother's Nighthawk 750 and it's designed to shift smoothly under all riding styles, but it is notchy. The 599 engine and trans, being based on a racing bike, seems to require a bit more attention. I have adjusted my riding and shifting style to the bike.

My changes:

1 - Even at the most lazy of speeds, I shift at over 4000RPM. If one tries to bump it up another gear, especially in gears 3, 4, and 5; and you aren't spinning 4000, it will get notching, false neutral, and generally not like life.

2 - Adjust the clutch to where it has very little freeplay, then pull back JUST ENOUGH to release the clutch. Some racers have a technique to shift; without releasing the throttle, one puts slight pressure on the shifter, and "flips" the clutch. As soon as pressure is released from the drivetrain, the shifter pops into gear. I am not recommending this, but the point is all that needs to be done is the clutch released a slight bit. If you are deliberate, and pull the clutch in all the way to the handgrip, then shift, then let out; well, the 599 just doesn't seem to like it.

I put slight pressure on the shifter and pull in slightly on the clutch and it slides in like butter. I don't force it, just focus on being smooth.

3 - Adjust the shift lever. These bikes have the lever adjusted for a person about 5'4" it seems. I had to adjust mine down quite a bit as my ankles are 42 years old. It helped greatly as before I couldn't flip my foot up enough to get it into the next gear.

4 - Change the oil....yes, when the oil gets old, the bike sure let's you know it. Not to start a holy war on oil, but I use Mobil1 4T as it's JASO rated and seems to keep the shifting quite smooth.

[a4naught]

Got a manual? There are manufacturer recs listed in a table. They are far lower RPMs than you'd think (and compared to all the suggestions here, for the most part). Very conservative. Probably maximizes the mpg, I'd guess.

[troyohchatter]

The manual has you in fifth by the time you are going 15MPH I think...well, it's not that bad but it's bad enough.

[yella599]

From day 1 my only complaint was that the bike didn't like to shift well. I have been trying the suggestion of shifting over 4000rpm. What a difference, not one bad shift. The bike shifts smooth and doesn't hesitate.

I have always set my clutches up for short pulls anyways so that was not my issue.

[jasride]

Are you all saying you don't have to pull the clutch all the way to the grip to shift? Just asking cause im having some minor issues. Mainly coming from a complete stop, the bike really feels awkward going into 2nd and 3rd gear. It seems clanky most times. Do you just pull the clutch in slightly and shift?

[motorico]

Are you all saying you don't have to pull the clutch all the way to the grip to shift? Just asking cause im having some minor issues. Mainly coming from a complete stop, the bike really feels awkward going into 2nd and 3rd gear. It seems clanky most times. Do you just pull the clutch in slightly and shift?

For most shifts, that is what I do. Even on the much clunkier transmission on my Buell I rarely pull the lever all the way in. In comparison, shifting the 599 is like butter.

[DH919]

Are you all saying you don't have to pull the clutch all the way to the grip to shift? Just asking cause im having some minor issues. Mainly coming from a complete stop, the bike really feels awkward going into 2nd and 3rd gear. It seems clanky most times. Do you just pull the clutch in slightly and shift?

Something you can do, and put a little pressure against the shifter, then just pull the clutch, and you'll feel the bike shift. It doesn't take much clutch pull to shift smoothly from gear to gear...

[snallygaster]

Agreed, sometimes no clutch is needed at all.

[Creakinbones]

Bike / Model / Year: 2004 Honda599

Hi, what's are the ideal / best up/down shifting points that you all have experienced for all gears? what's the best gauge for shifting rpm's or mph?

The best guage is the rev-counter. Eventually, you'll change gear without thinking too much about it (this is a good thing).

For me, it depends on what I'm doing/my mood. From taking it easy in the wet (4k) to 'on it' (9-10k) with warm tyres and a dry road but ideally:

Up-shifting - anything above 4,250. The engine is tuned to make 80% of it's max torque at these revs:mrgreen:. You don't have to use the clutch for shifting up on these bikes (mine actually seems to prefer clutchless upshifts!) but it does like a positive change if you want to avoid a false neutral between 5th and 6th.

Down-shifting - again, down to road conditions/mood but basically the same as above. You DO need to use the clutch on downshifting. I've read somewhere it doesn't like you going down more than two gears at a time but I still find myself sometimes running through 6th to 1st in one go for a stop! ( I'll pay for it eventually - I know).

Just one more area where the bike excels :mrgreen:.

[snallygaster]

AS a disclaimer, I don't actually ride a 599, I ride an '88 RC31. I just like the forum, and was a lurker when I was considering buying a 599 before I found the Hawk.

I wish I had a 6th gear :(

[DH919]

AS a disclaimer, I don't actually ride a 599, I ride an '88 RC31. I just like the forum, and was a lurker when I was considering buying a 599 before I found the Hawk.

I wish I had a 6th gear :(

No worries, welcome anyway :)

Most bike will shift the same way, gentle pressure against the clutch, and the bike will slip easily and quickly to the next gear.

Most Honda's have a false neutral between the top 2 gears, so in your case 4th and 5th. Some people swear by clutch-less upshifts, I've done it, but in the long run, you're bike will hate it. It wears down important tranny parts quicker.

[VinC]

Is this normal...when downshifting approaching a stop, if I don't have enough speed to get through each gear then my tranny will "hang up" in, say, 2nd gear and not get me first unless I release the clutch in 2nd gear (which is not sometimes possible if I am behind a car that is stopped). Once I do this though, I hear/feel a click and then I can downshift to 1st. Anyone have this happen? Did I explain it correctly?

[dabinche]

Is this normal...when downshifting approaching a stop, if I don't have enough speed to get through each gear then my tranny will "hang up" in, say, 2nd gear and not get me first unless I release the clutch in 2nd gear (which is not sometimes possible if I am behind a car that is stopped). Once I do this though, I hear/feel a click and then I can downshift to 1st. Anyone have this happen? Did I explain it correctly?

yup the tranny needs to be moving, even at a crawl, to down shift.

[Creakinbones]

Anyone have this happen?


Yes. But I think I hold the brake on and find neutral by releasing the clutch, just enough to let the crank give the transmission a tug (probably not a good thing either!). I'll have to check the next time some tw*t brakes hard in front of me for no apparent reason!

DH - I thought clutchless upshifts didn't hurt the bike:shock:, but I'm still learning. Do you know which parts are getting stressed?

[VinC]

Yes. But I think I hold the brake on and find neutral by releasing the clutch, just enough to let the crank give the transmission a tug (probably not a good thing either!). I'll have to check the next time some tw*t brakes hard in front of me for no apparent reason!

yup the tranny needs to be moving, even at a crawl, to down shift.

Thanks guys. Okay, that makes sense. I will try to use the brake in that situation but I think planning ahead better and downshifting earlier will give me the time I need to be moving through each downshift. I was hoping it was NOT my tranny but more like operator error...which I can fix with time and miles...hopefully. :mrgreen: Thanks again.

[Transient]

VinC - used to happen to me when I came to a stop abruptly before getting into 1st gear, such as emergency stops. All I had to do was ease the clutch out until the very start of engagement, pull it back in from there and downshifting was fine.

[VinC]

VinC - used to happen to me when I came to a stop abruptly before getting into 1st gear, such as emergency stops. All I had to do was ease the clutch out until the very start of engagement, pull it back in from there and downshifting was fine.

Thanks, I will try that.

[DH919]

Is this normal...when downshifting approaching a stop, if I don't have enough speed to get through each gear then my tranny will "hang up" in, ... Did I explain it correctly?

If you're already stopped and it doesn't want to downshift, just slip the clutch a little, and you'll feel it pop down.


DH - I thought clutchless upshifts didn't hurt the bike:shock:, but I'm still learning. Do you know which parts are getting stressed?

If done propperly, there is little wear, but it still stresses the tranny. This has been discusses repeatedly in Cycle World in the Service area. They are often referred to as "Transmission Dogs" or somethink like that. They are what helps hold the bike in gear as you ride. The more they are worn the more your bike is prone to slipping out of gear while you're riding. Which isn't fun. And for me, the extra wear on the clutch is worth not having to rip apart the engine case to replace transmission parts as the bike ages. But that's just me...

Race Teams often use clutchless shifting, but they have big money to rebuild when they tear up.

[Creakinbones]

If done properly, there is little wear, but it still stresses the tranny. They are often referred to as "Transmission Dogs" or somethink like that. They are what helps hold the bike in gear as you ride. The more they are worn the more your bike is prone to slipping out of gear while you're riding.

Cool. Transmission dogs is a new thing. I'll look it up. Thanks DH :thumbsup.

[VinC]

If you're already stopped and it doesn't want to downshift, just slip the clutch a little, and you'll feel it pop down.

Thanks guys. Was trying this out on my way to work this morning and I see what you're saying. This helps a lot! Thanks.